Let's Talk Politics

Ep 39: Skills, Supply Chains, and National Resilience - Canada's Manufacturing Renaissance

• Julia Pennella • Season 1 • Episode 39

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This is part 2 of my conversation on all things manufacturing and industrialization with Alex Greco, Senior Director of Manufacturing and Value Chains at the Canadian Chamber of Commerce.

Manufacturing's future in Canada hinges not on machines but on people. The sector faces what Alex describes as a "skills mismatch" rather than just a labor shortage. While companies struggle to find workers, the real challenge lies in finding people with the right skills in data analysis, cybersecurity, electronics, and robotics that modern manufacturing demands.

Solving this requires a multi-faceted approach, says Alex and includes developing programs directly linked to industry needs, creating ongoing learning and reskilling initiatives for current workers, expanding STEM and trades education in schools, and aligning immigration policies to bring in high-demand skilled workers. A national workforce strategy emerges as the critical missing piece—one that introduces manufacturing to students early, streamlines credential recognition, and creates clear career pathways into the sector.

Alex also points to the power of government procurement and how it represents a powerful yet underutilized tool for building manufacturing resilience. With federal spending around $20 billion annually, shifting from low-cost to strategic purchasing could drive demand for domestic innovation. Reforming the RFP process to incentivize local content and partnerships with Canadian companies would give manufacturers the runway they need to scale new technologies. 

As Greco puts it, "Every dollar spent by government is a vote for the kind of economy we want." This philosophy extends to addressing forced labor in supply chains and building defense manufacturing capabilities to meet Canada's ambitious NATO commitments. 

The path forward requires coherence and urgency—building not just for trade, but for Canada's economic future across all provinces and territories.

Quick heads up, this episode was recorded on August 6, 2025 so while the news may have changed since this conversation was recorded the thoughts and ideas still remain relevant.

Check out the Canadian Chamber of Commerce's Work:

What a ‘patent box’ is and why it can help solve Canada’s productivity problem - The Globe and Mail

Q&A: Curing Our Productivity Paralysis Will Require Incentives, Innovation and IP - Canadian Chamber of Commerce

Canada’s next move starts a few thousand feet below the ground - The Hill

Canada-U.S. Trade Tracker - Business Data Lab

How to Undermine U.S. Manufacturing: Debunking Aluminum Tariff Myths - Business Data Lab

Julia Pennella:

Welcome back to let's Talk Politics, the podcast that brings you the latest political and economic news shaping your world. This is part two of my conversation with Alex Greco, senior Director of Manufacturing and Value Chains at the Canadian Chamber of Commerce, and today we're talking about the real engine behind Canada's manufacturing future the people. As Alex puts it, this isn't just about a labour shortage. It's a skills mismatch. The jobs are there, but we need to invest in re-skilling our workforce and providing education opportunities for the future of advanced manufacturing. That's where we're falling behind, says Alex. From data analysis and robotics to cybersecurity and electronics, modern manufacturing demands a new kind of workforce and we need a national strategy to build it. In this episode, we'll dive into the power of government procurement, why it's one of the most underused tools in our economic toolbox to build up our national industries and resilience to economic shocks, and how shifting from low cost contracts to strategic investments could fuel innovation, resilience and domestic growth. We also tackle the big policy questions around forced labor in our supply chains and what Canada can do to lead the charge in eradicating this modern form of slavery. This episode is more than just factories. It's about the future of Canada's economy and our place on the global stage of manufacturing and innovation.

Julia Pennella:

Quick heads up this episode was recorded on August 6, 2025. So, while the news may have changed since this conversation was recorded, the thoughts and ideas still remain relevant. And with that, let's talk politics with Alex Greco. When we talk about manufacturing, there's people behind the machines, behind the operations. So I'm curious we've heard it for years now that there's labor shortages in construction and mining and all these very big sectors that really support Canada's economy and GDP, but how much of that is actually a skills gap problem? We have an aging workforce, less people coming into these sectors. So, yeah, is it a skills gap problem? Or, if it is, how do we start building a workforce ready for what the future of manufacturing and AI-driven technology is coming before us?

Alex Greco:

It's more of a skills mismatch than a shortage of workers, but the caveat that we are still suffering labor shortages. We are still seeing a lot of companies still having a hard time, you know, finding workers and getting the workers they need. But that ties in because there is that mismatch with the technologies looking at things around data analysis or cybersecurity or electronics or just general robotics. Advanced manufacturing needs that and I think the solution lies in a few different things. It's looking at expanding technical training and apprenticeship programs linked directly to industry needs. So, with the federal and provincial governments working together, developing ongoing learning and reskilling initiatives for incumbent workers, and then the whole conversation around immigration. I would look at our immigration policies, align them better to bring in the high demand skilled workers that we need. I believe those steps can close a significant portion of the gap and prepare for a workforce for the future. Close a significant portion of the gap and prepare for a workforce for the future.

Alex Greco:

I think training has to deal with the fact that there has to be a national workforce strategy necessary and just a moving means for it and it has to target lower-skill workers in manufacturing, the more high-skill workers in manufacturing.

Alex Greco:

Educational programs, career pathways in manufacturing, looking at programs to introduce grades 9 and 10 students at an early age in manufacturing and really ensuring that there's an understanding of what the sector is overall, and that's tours in high schools, building into skills competitions that are done by great organizations like Skills Ontario, for example, and building on that. Canada paves ideas but needs roads for them and it requires a national conversation, otherwise it's just not going to work. I think this is a longstanding issue that's been talked about, I think, for several years. We have seen announcements I'm not saying we haven't and there's been a lot of admirable initiatives, but the reality is it has to be done in a way that is focusing on key regions where you look at, here's the gaps the workers we meet in these different manufacturing facilities and having government, industry, educational institutions, universities, colleges working together to have that blueprint and push the needs forward.

Julia Pennella:

And when you talk about a national workforce, does that look like something maybe similar to the Red Seal trade? There's maybe a standardized regulation or skills licensing that allows you to bounce between provinces. I'm curious. Lean into what your vision or thoughts around a national workforce would look like, specifically when it comes to the manufacturing sector.

Alex Greco:

I think there's a few things. I think there's a focus on those vulnerable to automation and artificial intelligence. There is the investments in upskill and reskilling workers. Red seal training is definitely, I think, part of that process. That there's a streamline that you're making easier for individuals that want to get involved in manufacturing to have access to that. But it's also looking at credential recognition too. Right, I think streamlining that and make it easier because we have different processes, different requirements in manufacturing make it easier to be able to get that certification or get that education necessary to be able to move that forward. But I think it also requires focusing on a comprehensive approach to develop tech talent and that includes targeted programs focused on retaining and growing and attracting high-skill individuals.

Alex Greco:

But also consider the diversification and expansion of the technology workforce pipeline, and that requires what is a needs assessment. How does that fit into the broader talent narrative? How do we help companies, government, industry working together to help recruit talent through global, extended programs, fast tracking immigration, where it's important? We know how fast things are moving with cybersecurity, quantum robotics, artificial intelligence. How do we kind of close that gap and be able to keep in touch, what the trends are happening and making sure that this is a national conversation. It goes back to even the industrial strategy conversation we were having earlier. If we don't make it a national conversation, think about, okay, what do we want the workforce to look like 10 years from now? And if we want to get those projects moving that we talked about, well, it it starts with not only approvals permitting, but it starts with the people, and if the people are not set up for success, things just simply won't happen.

Julia Pennella:

Very well said. And when we are talking about that national resilience piece and the tools around innovation, I want to go back to one of the earlier points you also said around procurement, which you know sometimes sound boring, but it really is a very powerful tool for building that national resilience. But how can we reframe procurement to better support Canadian manufacturers, do you think?

Alex Greco:

It's a massive lever in Canada's economy. Federal spending every year for procurement tops it, I believe, around $20 billion annually. But there has to be a shifting to low-cost, to strategic purchasing, so government contracts can drive demand for domestic innovative, sustainable products. While also recognizing all the integration that we still have with the United States, it's not eliminating that we can look at things like our RFP process to make it much more easier for Canadian companies to probably give them an incentive in terms of what they do in terms of local content requirements, or what the companies are doing to eradicate forced labor from supply chains, what they're doing in terms of working with canadian companies, or looking at what they're doing in terms of partners that they deal with canadian companies. All those things can be factored into things. We can even look at things like rewarding manufacturers and suppliers that have a strong record in esg, environment, social governance and improving environmental performance overall. But I think for us, I think there's an opportunity to fund new products that can help SMEs, who have had a hard time navigating the procurement system, to be able to scale new technologies and enable technology adoption and scale.

Alex Greco:

There has to be this mindset shift, and the mindset shift needs to be, every dollar spent by government is a vote for the kind of economy we want and that needs to be tied into how we're doing our procurement system.

Alex Greco:

I think, to even start off, it's like looking at mapping what do we currently have, what do we make here, what are our gaps and how does that factor into a path forward in terms of doing proper supply chain mapping and that can help reframe how we do procurement and support manufacturing. But I think there's no question if we're going to even look at things like there's been an awful conversation around defense right now If we want more defense manufacturing, we have to fix our procurement system first and that requires broad-based procurement reform and even looking at like an agency kind of similar to what's been done in the United States with the DARPA model or Defense Advanced Research Agency, to set that up for success. So it's kind of a national service to help companies be able to navigate the procurement system and be able to leverage the research and development capabilities to give companies the best opportunity for success.

Julia Pennella:

And that's always really what it comes down to is how can we set up our domestic industries for success through policy, through cutting out red tape, all those really good points you brought up. And I just want to shift the conversation because you brought it up about forced labor, and this has been something really, I think, conscious for both consumers when they're purchasing goods, as well as governments taking a lead on this. So I point to fast fashion giants like Shein that are pumping out these cheap clothes. They're raising major flags when it comes to textile waste and, again, forced labor. Specifically, france has stepped up with eco-taxes and bans and stricter rules to curb this overconsumption and hopefully suppress a bit of that demand. But I want to point to your experience You've spoken on forced labor in Washington to your experience you've spoken on forced labor in Washington. Do you think Canada could or should follow suit with maybe similar policies to hold these companies more accountable, whether it is eradicating forced labor in our own supply chains and that environmental impact?

Alex Greco:

Well, I think it's important to start off that all the member companies I talk to and obviously as the Canadian Chamber of Commerce, we support ethical policies around forced labor. We believe in eradicating forced labor for supply chains. I think the Supply Chains Act S-211, was a good start in terms of trying to do that. I mean there were challenges with implementation and guidance. There was a lot of unanswered questions around how to help companies be able to comply. I think that's important, but I think as we go forward, we need to be very balanced and nuanced approach and look at what are some of the vulnerabilities and the get apps and ensuring that we're protecting Canadian manufacturers from unfair competition, supporting sustainable industrial practices. It's very delicate because supply chains are so complicated. There's so many integrated things like dealing with traceability. A lot of companies have different traceability measures in place to help eradicate forced labor. I know one of our members counter forced labor technologies. They are helping companies be able to comply with S211 eradicating forced labor. I think there's no. Be able to comply with S211 eradicating forced labor. I think there's no question.

Alex Greco:

We need to make sure we're doing our part. There should be zero tolerance for violations and there needs to be ethical sourcing through public procurement. There needs to be accountability measures, but it's how smart that we do it. I mean, there was a conversation last December around mandatory human rights to diligence legislation enhancing the import ban under the canada united states mexico free trade agreement. Think there, it's how it's done. And look at what has been done in the uk, what has been done in australia, what and other jurisdictions, to make sure that we are, yes, we're aligning where appropriate, but making sure we are focusing on what is best for Canada while ensuring we top the state goal. And that requires a lot of authentic consultation with industry. And it's looking at some of the examples with what the US has done with the UGOR Forced Labor Prevention Act and how that has evolved, with targeting regions like Xinjiang as an example.

Julia Pennella:

Absolutely, and it's again super important. I think Canada could also take that lead in it. So it should be interesting to see how that conversation evolves with industry and through a policy front. And you know, I just want to ask you one of my last questions here, with the federal government gearing up to table the next budget in the fall and calling on for public input, if you had the prime minister's ear, what policies would you be pushing for? Obviously, manufacturing and industrialization, but you know what should be front and center to drive that real change in this sector.

Alex Greco:

There are a lot of things that I could say, but I want to focus on defense. We recently made a commitment around 5% defense setting. It's tectonic, it's massive, but we haven't even met our 2% target yet. We have had a lot of trouble for a long time and we're going to have to spend a lot of money just to get there. And, julie, as you know, government isn't the quickest at getting things moving. Go in for 5%, love the ambition. It's significant. We want to be able to build more defense equipment, but when rubber hits the road, in the weeks and months to come, we have to have a path forward on what we're going to do. We could say we could get to 2% or 5%, but what are we doing? We have to get serious about working quickly and to see results. It isn't going to get easier. So we have to think about where our government spending is going to be able to allocate those dollars that are necessary. Look at getting programs in place, getting the services in place. Going back to my conversation on procurement earlier, once we have the investing in defense, procurement, once we make the necessary initial reforms required for procurement, is going to be important.

Alex Greco:

The reality is there's a lot that can go wrong with this conversation. I think the prime minister needs to stay focused, get the specifics right, consult, work closer with the different departments, because this is a city where, if you rush to, yes, we need to get things moving quickly, but take the due diligence necessary, otherwise there are unintended consequences that can happen. It's in our interest to get this right so we can have advantage over our international competitors and be able to be seen as credible with our NATO partners. But to do that we have to be smart, strategic and we have to have the tools necessary to support that industrial growth, not just feeding into defense, but really saying okay, where do we want to be as a country in 10 years? Do we want to just be a small player on the world stage, or do we want to be known as the big things that really revolutionized a generation? If?

Julia Pennella:

the answer is the latter, then we need to do it smart but also moving forward towards getting to our 2% commitment and then eventually our 5% commitment. And there seems to be that push with the government with the $9 billion investment into defense, but you know, it's still. We have to see where that's going to go. Specifically, Is it people power? Because a lot of our defense machines are very updated, Our ships, you know.

Alex Greco:

I was just going to say, like, whether you look at F-35s, our ships, our tanks, our other military jets, even just basic equipment for Canadian soldiers to defend themselves, we got a long way to go and if we're going to boost that forward, the money's got to go there, but it's really doing a means analysis and assessment on really figuring out so the money could be used strategically and we're not just throwing money and then there's no outcome.

Julia Pennella:

And to your point, like the nature of combat's changing. We have drones, but cybersecurity there's so many layers to what defense captures in 2025 and beyond. All really, really good points. So, Alex, I just want to throw it to you. Are there any other closing thoughts?

Alex Greco:

Three things Industrial strategy is emerging, but we need coherence and urgency. Canada must build, not just for trade but for its economic future and everything that's with tariffs and trade and Trump. Yes, it's a wake-up call, but it's not a death kneel, and together we can ensure an advanced manufacturing sector that has more jobs, sector that has more job, more investment, more opportunity and more economic development for not only Canada as a country, but also our communities and our citizens across all 10 provinces and all three territories.

Julia Pennella:

Very well said. That was a great way to end it. And that was Alex Greco. He's the Senior Director of Manufacturing and Value Chains at Canadian Chamber of Commerce. They're putting out some great work. I'll be sure to link some of their reports in the show notes as well for you to check out. But, alex, I want to thank you so much for your time and all your great insights.

Alex Greco:

Thank you, julia, it was my pleasure.