Let's Talk Politics

Ep 38: “Less Grease, More Code” – The Future of Canadian Manufacturing

• Julia Pennella • Season 1 • Episode 38

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Canada’s manufacturing sector stands at a pivotal crossroads. With U.S. protectionist trade policies sending shockwaves through global markets, supply chains, and the manufacturing industry, the golden age of free trade and globalization is behind us. In its place is a new era where national resilience and strategic autonomy take precedence—one that demands a complete reimagining of Canada’s industrial strategy.

Joining me in this episode to unpack the challenges and innovations shaping Canada’s manufacturing sector is Alex Greco, Senior Director of Manufacturing and Value Chains at the Canadian Chamber of Commerce. Throughout his career, Alex has been a leading advocate for manufacturers across the country, helping to strengthen value chains in sectors like mechatronics, aerospace, and defence. From advanced manufacturing to public policy, Alex has been a key voice for the manufacturing industry at the decision-making table. 

Alex helps bust the myth that Canadian manufacturing is stuck in the past. Forget the dusty factory floors and ‘80s-era assembly lines—today’s manufacturing facilities are powered by smart sensors, AI-driven robotics, and digital twins that predict maintenance before problems even start. This is the cutting edge of making things in Canada—and it’s a future that needs smart policy and public buy-in to thrive.

Alex highlights regulatory harmonization across provinces as a major challenge. He explains  that in Canada, manufacturers can face approval processes that take up to two years—compared to just 60 days in competing U.S. jurisdictions. If we want to foster innovation and attract investment, we need to break down these regulatory roadblocks and build manufacturing ecosystems that can thrive in the digital age.

Securing our industrial future means investing in strategic sectors like digital manufacturing, biotech, clean energy, and advanced materials, while preparing our workforce for the technological transformation already underway.

Don’t go too far—my conversation with Alex Greco on the future of Canadian manufacturing continues in Part 2.

Check out the Canadian Chamber of Commerce's Work:

What a ‘patent box’ is and why it can help solve Canada’s productivity problem - The Globe and Mail

Q&A: Curing Our Productivity Paralysis Will Require Incentives, Innovation and IP - Canadian Chamber of Commerce

Canada’s next move starts a few thousand feet below the ground - The Hill

Canada-U.S. Trade Tracker - Business Data Lab

How to Undermine U.S. Manufacturing: Debunking Aluminum Tariff Myths - Business Data Lab

Quick heads up, this episode was recorded on August 6, 2025 so while the news may have changed since this conversation was recorded the thoughts and ideas still remain relevant. 

Julia Pennella:

Welcome back to let's Talk Politics, the podcast that unpacks the economic and political stories shaping our world and what they actually mean for you. Canada's manufacturing sector is at a turning point, with US protectionism policies shaking global markets and disrupting supply chains. The golden age of free trade seems to be over. We're now in a new era, one where national resilience and strategic autonomy matter more than ever, and if Canada wants to keep up, it's gonna take a full rethink of how we build trade and compete. Joining me to unpack what this means and where we go from here is Alex Greco, senior Director of Manufacturing and Value Chains at the Canadian Chamber of Commerce. We're talking about the real face of modern manufacturing in Canada Think AI, robotics. Gone are the days of dusty factory floors and delayed assembly lines. From trade policy and supply chains to regulatory headaches and the future of our workforce, alex breaks down what it'll take to build a smarter, stronger and more sustainable manufacturing economy. Quick heads up this episode was recorded on August 6, 2025. So, while the news may have changed since this conversation was recorded, the thoughts and ideas still remain relevant. But before we dive into today's episode, here's a quick roundup of the latest headlines making news.

Julia Pennella:

Prime Minister Mark Carney signalled a more measured approach in response to President Donald Trump's latest round of tariff increases. Rather than retaliate, prime Minister Carney indicated he may be open to removing some of Canada's existing tariffs if it supports Canadian industries. The comments came during a $1.2 billion funding announcement in British Columbia to support Canada's softwood lumber sector. The two countries failed to reach a new trade agreement by the August 1st deadline, triggering a 35% import tax by the Trump administration on certain Canadian goods not covered by the Canada-US-Mexico agreement. While Canada has imposed counter-tariffs multiple times since the trade dispute began, carney's suggestion of a potential tariff rollback is notable, particularly as the US granted Mexico a 90-day pause on similar measures, with both domestic pressures and an unpredictable US counterpart to manage. Prime Minister Carney's next steps will be closely watched, and with that, let's talk politics with Alex Greco. So, alex, thanks so much for joining us today.

Alex Greco:

Great to be with you.

Julia Pennella:

I'm really looking forward to the conversation and you're on, let's Talk Politics, so I have to ask you what's your political and economic hot take right now?

Alex Greco:

Well, thank you again, julia, for inviting me here today. You know, for me and this might be controversial or I could see it easily be taken out of context but President Trump is premise for tariffs is that, depending on your perspective, all things should be produced in the United States of America. He believes in his own country that building things is good for the US economy, and it's America first and that's not a bad goal. It's America first and that's not a bad goal. But the reality is, when you look at tariffs, tariffs are attacks on Americans and they impact the whole North American economy.

Alex Greco:

There's been a lot of talk about bringing jobs from Canada and to build domestic manufacturing in the United States, but the reality is we are at a period of a lot of uncertainty, and volatility is the new uncertainty, and so everything that we've seen about the golden age of globalization, where everything was about lowest cost and free trade, that's over. We're entering an era where national resilience and strategic autonomy is going to matter more than ever, and so how manufacturers evolve, it's evolved away from dirty jobs and pollution and smoke flying out of facilities. It's our time to be resilient to prevent future disruptions and, simply put, tariffs are just not the way to do it. Yes, the president's goal about having a strong domestic industrial base is admirable, and you know I share the same thing. But there has to be a strategic path forward where we are putting ourselves in a position to build our domestic base here in Canada to ensure that we have a competitive manufacturing sector, that it's resilient.

Julia Pennella:

And I want to lean into innovation and AI, and when we are talking about the manufacturing sector, I don't think that's maybe an easy connection for the average person to think about. I think when we hear AI, we think just chat GPT. But what kind of innovation are you seeing in the manufacturing sector that can help elevate Canada and our national and global presence when it comes to producing goods for expanding our partnership with Asia, other emerging markets, europe, what are you seeing?

Alex Greco:

It was initially just a term, but when you look at a manufacturing facility that could be used things like with inventory management and how that feeds into leveraging educated and smart people to work with artificial intelligence to make things more efficient and lead into improving business processes overall, it's also tied into commercialization and manufacturing of artificial intelligence-enabled products. We've always said in Canada that we're great at research, but when it comes to actually building things and to scale up, we're falling flat. We are one of the worst countries when it comes to business research and development spending. Compared to some of our other global peers like when you look at South Korea, for example, and Germany. We are a global leader in research.

Alex Greco:

But in order to leverage AI, there has to be a willingness to be open to it, and I think companies are open to it. But to do that requires manufacturing and innovation. Ecosystems need to be created. Regulatory hurdles have to be dismantled to make that innovation ecosystem available. The technologies that are available whether you're looking at AI-powered robotics or smart sensors or to help with more efficient production lines, or look at biomanufacturing plants to produce life-saving therapies in healthcare these facilities are having the cutting-edge technology to build for the future, whether it's Internet of Things, digital twinning, other machine learning. They're used to optimize quality and efficiency. So, as we go forward, I think it's all there, but it's how we are focusing on high-tech, innovation-driven and clean tech and, in essence, less grease. Clean tech and, in essence, less grease, more code.

Julia Pennella:

Interesting, and I want to continue on that point. You know Canada. We were dubbed the godfather of AI. Geoffrey Hinton won the Nobel Prize for it and you mentioned there are some regulatory burdens in Cardini's cabinet. He did appoint the first minister of AI, but I'm curious what are the regulatory challenges that you mentioned are making that an issue or a burden or a barrier for companies to scale up and innovate, whether it is in the manufacturing space you pointed to, like clean tech and various different industries like? What is it that you want to see changed, whether it be policy or just general action for the government, to make AI and innovation a staple for Canadian businesses?

Alex Greco:

Well, I think the first thing is there needs to be regulatory harmonization across provinces. We have seen Bill C-5 that has passed. I think that was a strong strategy to trying to lay the groundwork in terms of internal trade and project approvals, but that harmonization needs to happen if we're going to create a predictable and innovation-friendly environment that rewards companies producing here. Secondly, though, it's looking at other measures to support project approvals and that, for example, I keep hearing from manufacturers that it still takes them a year or two years to get a permit to build a project, whether you're dealing with AI technology or other technologies to help grow the economy and jobs. That shouldn't be the case.

Alex Greco:

Things should be done Like, if you look at other jurisdictions like Michigan, ohio, indiana, like they get approvals within 60 days, no-transcript.

Alex Greco:

When you look at even things like internal trade, to get things moving and to get the necessary materials and inputs. It shouldn't be harder to trade within our own country than it is with Florida to do that, but that requires looking at reducing delays across federal, provincial, territorial levels, making programs more accessible and coordinated to reduce complexity. Look at things like regulatory sandboxes that have been talked about by the federal government to enable faster testing and adoption of new manufacturing technologies and then looking at different business processes to be more efficient, and that can be done through government helping out with concierge services, whether you're dealing with procurement or just access to government grants and resources. I mean, we do have a national innovation office, innovation Canada. There are things like BDC and EDC and so forth, but there needs to be a stronger partnership between government and industry to lead to ensure that businesses can do what they do best, and that is to create new Canadian products and technologies and create jobs for Canadians.

Julia Pennella:

Mm-hmm, Very well said. And working within the Canadian Chamber of Commerce, like is there any really exciting manufacturing projects or businesses that have been standing out to you that you're like, wow, this is really going to be the future for Canada.

Alex Greco:

Yeah, there's definitely a few. I mean I can't speak to them like specific companies per se. Some of these projects are confidential, but what I can't say is they are game changing products in terms of new products and innovations on how we are able to access things, dealing with whether it's food or new technologies to help companies be able to scale up their business or be more efficient, and that's dealing with things like robotics and quantum manufacturing and tying back into artificial intelligence, and I think the sky is the limit. And that could lead towards building more independent capacity, not only around our economic future, but around national security, around economic resiliency, where, you know, yes, we're leveraging all the resources necessary to diversify our supply chains while preserving the benefits of the bilateral partnership.

Alex Greco:

But you are seeing some companies lean into things. I mean, just take healthcare manufacturing as an example, where we've seen what companies like Sanofi have done in terms of vaccine manufacturing, other companies to invest in the future of the automotive sector. I think that's helpful, so we can play a role in critical subsectors of manufacturing, like defense, like healthcare, like pharmaceuticals, like critical minerals. But these projects are few and far between. If we want to see our own boom in manufacturing, then there has to be the conditions in place to do that. You know more on tax incentives, a competitive regulatory environment, lowering business costs and being able to help companies get the workforce resources they need to be set up for success.

Julia Pennella:

And you touched on a few different industries there. So I want to lean into that point further about kind of busting the myth around. When people hear manufacturing they think of, you know, dusty factory floors and assembly lines, maybe stuck in the 80s. But what is modern manufacturing actually look like today in Canada?

Alex Greco:

When we looked at modern Canadian manufacturing, it's worlds away from that old image of tool and die manufacturing and just dirty factories. Think about it this way, at it this way. Look at clean rooms with smart sensors. Look at it with robotics that operate in real time to help modernize production. Look at battery cells with cutting-edge chemistry and other integrated digital twins for predictive maintenance. Almost all manufacturing manufacturing not every single one. The most they use advanced technology now to ensure advanced manufacturing. So that real image it's high tech, it's clean, it's innovative driven and it's robust. And so gone are the days where you just had assembly lines that are delayed because of basic technology break center. There's not enough workers. Yes, there's still challenges there, but because technology has been able to completely wash away this old image and you see now with how things are done, in terms of whether making defense equipment, aerospace equipment or even how we manufacture food, it's much more efficient, it's more conducive to quality and it allows for goods and services to get to Canadians more quickly to get to Canadians more quickly.

Julia Pennella:

We talked a lot during the pandemic about building more resilient supply chains, because we saw the cracks in the system well before the threat of tariffs that were being hit with. But do you think we actually learned anything since then, or did we just end up going back to business as usual?

Alex Greco:

It's an important question and it's part of a national conversation. Many manufacturers did step up during the pandemic. You know, I feel like every day in the manufacturing sector we move on from crisis to crisis and challenge to challenge, and we've seen that throughout generations. Some businesses have really taken the steps to innovate as a result and change their way on how they do business, whether you're looking at transport, logistics or around inventory management, how they're modernizing there. But we've got a long way to go.

Alex Greco:

Still, the progress, I think from government has been uneven. We see many supply chains that remain heavily dependent on single sources, frankly like from China for crucial components. The ongoing conversation around tariffs, the geopolitical shifts that are happening in Europe and elsewhere are forcing companies and governments to think, hey, we have to revisit these risks. We talked about that during the pandemic, but it didn't happen to the effect it needed to. And now you're seeing, wow, we need to diversify more. We need to look at a rethink on what is considered to be bi-Can Canadian, but there's some sensitivities to that because how integrated we are in supply chains. But yes, the pandemic was a wake-up call, but we have a long way to go for supply chain resilience to become a standard practice overall, and I think it requires a two-way partnership between government and industry.

Alex Greco:

Things don't make themselves. Companies end up in difficult situations. You can't just move costs, you can't just move your supply chains overnight. You can't put consumers in a difficult spot and it takes a while for companies to adjust to resiliences, because crises happen where it batters businesses and there's a lot of disruption and they have to rethink what they do. But to start on that, you know that requires getting to a place where we have processes in place that are fair, reliable, predictable, affordable and being able to pivot to new ways of thinking, doing business and having government give the conditions necessary to do that. Otherwise it's going to be a vicious circle and it's going to be death by a thousand cuts for Canadian manufacturing.

Julia Pennella:

Yeah, really good points there, and I think there is a bit more signaling with this new government that openness to work with industry, to work with business. So we'll have to see what this next upcoming term looks like. But I want to continue on with that point about making sure we're looking at the geopolitical context. What does made in Canada versus product of Canada look like? But continuing on with that exporting narrative. So we still have this idea that we just ship resources out and, you know, call it a day. But how can we change that narrative and help Canadians understand how integrated and vital our role in global manufacturing actually is?

Alex Greco:

It's interesting because I think this whole thing about just shipping things out, it's about giving an education in terms of where our resources and where our products come from. You know going forward. So we at the Canadian Chamber of Commerce, through our business data lab, we have done studies around tariffs, around big US cities and where our goods, you know, come from Cities like San Antonio, texas, detroit, michigan. It shows how we depend heavily on Canadian exports. We've seen on how 95% of Canadian exports qualify under the Canada-United States-Mexico Free Trade Agreement. We've seen how in our own backyard, whether it's here at Brantbridge, woodstock, sous-saint-marie, other regions of you know ontario, where things come from and where resources come from. But be able to do that it's being able to show, I think, the mapping of our resources sector and where things come from.

Alex Greco:

You even take like one product One part might come from Michigan, another part might come from Saskatchewan, another part might come from Texas.

Alex Greco:

Like all these different things, it's not just one size fits all, it's all very complicated, frankly, and so in order to build our resources sector, if we're going to think about how do we become Australian, we have to map that out and be able to look at what are the resources in place to be able to make that happen and then, from there, think about the path forward as to how do we strengthen our sector. So I think that requires national campaigns highlighting how our resource sector is all integrated to Canadian manufacturing. It's about sharing those success stories about how small medium manufacturers are stepping up and how that feeds into educational opportunities, especially if we want to build our workforce for the future, and how it fits into resources sector and how we import and export and how that fits into our global manufacturing activity. That is a big piece of that and how that feeds into building the next industrial revolution for getting manufacturing and feeding into our resources.

Julia Pennella:

All really good points and I wanted to highlight that last point you said about kind of having this new wave of like industrial revolution, and in Canada we haven't seen that serious industrial policy push from the federal government since, you know, really post-World War. So do you think this is purely reactive to tariffs or do you think this shift was intentionally on the horizon?

Alex Greco:

Yeah, knowing where technology is going, where business is going. I think it was on the horizon per se in terms of some companies, but now everything that's happening in tariffs is really you know. I know it's been cliched and said a lot in the media recently, but it's a wake-up call for manufacturing for us as a country and what do we do going forward. But I think it's a mindset shift. Think about reindustrialization, meaning investing in industries of the future Digital manufacturing, biotech, clean energy, advanced materials All those elements allow us to secure our ability to produce the goods we need here at home.

Alex Greco:

So it's about, I believe, creating strategic industrial clusters that blend skilled labor and skilled trades, manufacturing, blend skill labor and the skill trades, manufacturing capacity and innovation. It's about looking at how do we support domestic production and supply chain security through our procurement system. Look at how we're growing hubs for health security, or look at new programs to prepare workers to be able to reskill and upskill their abilities to operate advanced technologies. There's a saying when there's chaos, there's opportunity, and I think this is an opportunity for a high-tech, sustainable economy here in Canada and be able to unleash the promise of manufacturing. We talk about reshoring all the time and how we need to look inward. The tools are there. Through the people, through the processes, the technologies. It's about leaning in and not being afraid of failure.

Julia Pennella:

And that's a wrap on this episode, but don't go too far. Alex is back in part two, where we dive into what Canada's labour force needs to stay competitive, how AI fits into the mix, why defence might be Canada's next big export and the big messy policy stuff like how your canned tomatoes and fast fashion are part of a much bigger story around forced labor in our supply chains. There's a lot to unpack and you're not going to want to miss it. I'm your host, julia Piniella, and this was let's Talk Politics. Catch you on the next episode.