Let's Talk Politics

Ep 17: Voices in the Classroom - Inside Ontario's Education System

• Julia Pennella • Season 1 • Episode 17

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The politics of education run deeper than most of us realize. When Vito Totino, a councillor on the York Catholic Teachers Executive, joined me to discuss Ontario's education landscape, he revealed startling realities about what's happening in our classrooms.

Since 2018, Ontario's education system has been systematically underfunded by more than $1,500 per student annually. This isn't just a number – it's manifested in overcrowded classrooms, teachers lacking basic resources, and most alarmingly, a dramatic rise in classroom violence. Contrary to public perception, this violence isn't happening in high school hallways but predominantly involves our youngest and most vulnerable students. With over 50,000 children on autism support waitlists and early intervention programs slashed, many special needs students arrive at school without crucial therapy or coping mechanisms.

Our conversation ventured into how technology is reshaping education. While social media and AI present legitimate challenges like distraction and cyberbullying, they also offer powerful teaching opportunities when properly integrated. Yet teachers rarely receive adequate training on these tools, with the onus falling on individual educators to adapt on their own time. This disconnect between rapidly evolving classroom realities and slow-moving policy responses exemplifies why having educators' voices at the decision-making table matters.

Perhaps most illuminating was Vito's perspective on what unions truly do beyond negotiating contracts. As Pope Francis noted, unions serve as "voices for the voiceless," essential for maintaining humane conditions within capitalist systems. They provide crucial protection and advocacy for workers while establishing standards that benefit society at large – from healthcare benefits to workplace safety.

Whether you're a parent, educator, or simply concerned about the future of education, this conversation offers critical insights into the political forces shaping our classrooms. Subscribe to hear more discussions that go beyond headlines to explore the systems affecting our everyday lives.



Julia Pennella:

Hey guys, welcome back to let's Talk Politics. After months of anticipation, canadians headed to the polls on Monday, and the result was one of the most surprising political turnarounds in recent memory, in an election filled with more twists than a drama. The Liberals yes, the same Liberals who were trailing badly in the polls just months ago have pulled off a fourth consecutive win, and not just any win. They took the popular vote and came within a hair of clinching a majority. With 169 seats to the Conservatives' 144, the Liberals formed yet another minority government, falling just short of the 172 seats needed for a majority, which means they'll have to work with opposition parties to survive another round of confidence votes in the future. Now, I promise you we will get into everything that went down with the election, but that's coming up in a future episode.

Julia Pennella:

Today we're shifting gears a bit and talking about something that might not seem super political at first glance Ontario's education system. But trust me, there's way more politics behind the scenes than you might think. My guest today is Vito Totino, a councillor on the York Catholic Teachers Executive. He serves as a certified work member on the Joint Health and Safety Committee and also co-chairs the Political Action Committee. In this episode we're digging into how the education landscape has changed since we were both students ourselves, why having union voices at the policymaking table matters, and how unions support not just educators but students as well. We'll also talk about what's really at stake when governments fail to properly fund education. Spoiler alert it's all political, so let's get into it. Hello everybody, welcome back to another episode of let's Talk Politics. Today I have Vito Totino here and we're going to be talking about the education system, the role of unions within education, and we're going to dabble a little bit into the federal election that just passed. So, vito, thanks so much for joining us.

Vito Totino:

Absolutely, Julia. Thanks for having me.

Julia Pennella:

Great, I'm really looking forward to this conversation. So the federal election has just wrapped up. Although your focus is on education, you have a background in political science and analysis. What was your take on the federal election and all the parties?

Vito Totino:

Yeah, so I mean, to me Trump played a big factor in the election. We saw one party in particular Liberals come out really strong with a message of anti-Trump, anti-tariff, trying to protect Canadians, which I think was very effective. We saw the Conservatives that were really not able to pivot from their original anti-Trudeau, anti-carbon tax election, which they didn't get. And then we had the NDP, which really was trying to save as much of their furniture as possible. But really I think one of the messages that I found confusing was Pierre Pelliev's trying to get into the labor market. He loved cosplaying in all of the factories and the floors there, but if people have a short memory, because just a little over 10 years ago he was the guy who headed a committee trying to get rid of the Rand formula and undercut unions all across Canada. So someone who's very anti-labor trying to pull in that labor vote I found was very interesting. But yeah, it was a very interesting campaign all around.

Julia Pennella:

Absolutely, and it was very much an interesting shift, especially when we saw his message boots, not suits, coming from a guy who's only ever worked in politics. I mean for criticisms. None of them have worked blue collar jobs, but the others didn't pretend to do so. Right, the federal elections wrap, but Ontario also just wrapped up its own election earlier this year Another conservative majority. I want to dive into the most recent throne speech and, given your experience in classrooms specifically with special needs students, in the throne speech there was no mention of new investments in education and nothing at all about autism or special needs supports. Given Premier Ford's track record of cutting programs, especially those that support students with autism, what message do you think this sends to teachers, to parents and especially to families of kids with special needs?

Vito Totino:

Yeah, I mean it sends a message of, essentially, you're on your own. It's a practiced model of institutional neglect is what Premier Ford and the PCs are doing here. Since 2018, when the PCs took office, the education system has been underfunded by more than $1,500 per student per year. So that is something they'll trumpet all of the investments that they're making, but when you take into fact inflation and the growing student population, it's actually underfunded substantially, and we're seeing that in the classroom. We're seeing that, with teachers not having the resources they need to do the work that they are intended to do, and a lot of it is them doing it on their own time, because teachers love teaching, they love their students and they want to make the best of it. But as a union, we always remind them that doing the work for free is not going to improve things, so we need to always be mindful of that.

Vito Totino:

In terms of autism, more than 50,000 on the waiting list still, and this government said that they were going to make things better. They've made it substantially worse, and in the schools, we see that in a very significant way because prior to this government, there was programming substantial programming that was available to parents for children with autism. Those programs have almost dried up, and so what we see now is students coming into the schools with autism who have had little to no therapy, little to no programming, support, and so they're coming into the schools not knowing how to self-regulate themselves, maybe they're coming in non-verbal, not knowing how to communicate, and all of that is being exhibited in terms of violence. So when they talk about violence on the media, violence in schools, a lot of people try to have this image of high school gangsters getting rough in the hallways. That's not it at all.

Vito Totino:

In my role, in my health and safety role, I deal with violence on a daily basis. I can say that 90% of that violence is kindergarten, grade one, grade two, and it's almost always special needs students. And I'm not blaming the students, I'm not blaming the parents. The programming is just not there to support them and the funding has been pulled out of the schools, so not even the schools can try to support them. One of the first things school boards cut is special education, because they just don't have the voice to speak up for themselves, and a lot of times the parents are overwhelmed and don't know how to get that message out, that they need more support, and so it's an easy cut for the boards, unfortunately.

Julia Pennella:

Yeah, it's extremely unfortunate and it makes sense the way that you phrase it as well. I think we often forget, as the public, that supports start even for special needs students prior to even getting school into the classroom. So when you have those programs cut and the supports for those families, you know it is a full-time job to be a caregiver for individuals, depending on their whether physical or intellectual needs. So it's really unfortunate. And I want to tap into a little bit about the violence and safe health and safety piece. Why is it that we don't have maybe clearer safety protocols or specific training in place for dealing with violent or aggressive behaviors in classrooms? This is a feedback I've heard from some teachers who do work in the special needs classrooms. You know teachers and staff are often left to figure it out on their own. Why is that still the case, do you think?

Vito Totino:

Yeah, so I can't speak for other boards, but I can tell you that in my board there is training. It's not widespread, it is piecemeal and then is given specifically to education workers. So educational assistants, educational interveners, eces they would get it first because they are the first hands-on person with the special needs student. Special education teachers will then receive what we call BMS training or behavior management systems training, and that training essentially is designed not to put your hands on the student but to get away from the violent student. Try to deflect attacks. Try to deflect someone's trying to pull your hair or slap you. How to get away, keep that person's dignity intact while keeping yourself safe at the same time. So the training is there. It's not widespread. I would say it's a financial piece there again. So they're doing as much as they need to, but they could be doing more.

Julia Pennella:

And going back as well to your point about unfortunately, certain programs will get cut if there's not a loud enough voice at the table for it. You've been involved with the Political Advisory Committee. How do unions like the ones you've worked with engage with elected officials or government departments to influence change in the education system?

Vito Totino:

Yeah, so I can tell you on the provincial level, when I was chair of the Political Advisory Committee, we helped the Government Relations and Public Affairs Department of OECD. Their job was to lobby the government, make connections with political parties, put our interests on the map. They ran an excellent campaign called knowmoreca K-N-O-W moreca. It's still active. They ran it through the elections but it even is during or after elections because it helps to get the information out there to people about what's happening in schools. Another excellent resource they had was kidsplaining, where I don't know if you've heard the commercials on the radio during the election where they had kids explaining what the deficiencies were in schools and why we need to support parties. That would be more education friendly. That's at a provincial level, at a local level. A lot of it is educating and informing our members about what's happening out there.

Vito Totino:

Teachers are very active, they're very political, but in this environment they just don't have the time and they're tired. So we hear time and time again. We present opportunities for them to get engaged, whether it's canvassing, meet the candidates, whatever it is. We get more feedback, positive feedback, from our members about the information that we provide them, whether that's through infographics of specific policies that are out there, platforms, or even just going to them and saying, okay, look, these are the ridings that are in York region. If we want a more education-friendly government, here's what the polls are saying. If we don't want a PC candidate to win, here's the candidate that's best positioned to beat that candidate and help us elect a more education-friendly government. So I think the provincial body is more in tune with lobbying and making those contacts, whereas the local body is more in tune with the action and getting our members engaged in that process.

Julia Pennella:

Very well put and I always say, and I think you would agree knowledge is power, right, absolutely. The more knowledge you have, you can do that informed vote, you can be an informed advocate for your civic engagement or whatever you're trying to fight for. And in your experience, what does it actually look like when union voices are at the table during these policy discussions? What kind of influence do they bring, and are they even invited at the table? I think is maybe a question I would even probe to you.

Vito Totino:

Yeah. So I would say lately no, they're not invited. Whenever there's a new curriculum document put out by the Ministry of Education or a new announcement put out, we usually hear about it on the TV or afterwards. Very, very little input is requested from us. We offer it up all the time, even when we're not asked. Whether they take that into account or not, I don't know. I don't think so, but previous governments, I can say, were more in tune with our needs, more in tune with understanding that we are the experts in the field. We're actually in the classrooms in the field. We know what's going on, we know what works, we know what we need, so why not ask us? So again, this is to me an example of institutional neglect, where they know what they want to do and it doesn't really include our input in that because it doesn't really fit their model.

Julia Pennella:

Yeah, Interesting points, and I think that's also a big theme in all my conversations on the podcast is it's so critical and important to have those stakeholders, those experts in the field, to be at the policymaking table. Because I have a master's in public policy, I've worked in government. Your policy is only as good as what you know, and what you know most of the time, policy developers again speaking at a federal level, is you're Toronto-centric or you're Ottawa-centric. But I will never understand the realities of someone from St John, New Brunswick, the realities of someone from Edmonton, Alberta. So I really take your point and it's unfortunate that there's this missed gap.

Vito Totino:

Yeah, so the time that we're at the table with them is bargaining right. So we just got through bargaining and we're going to start bargaining very soon again. But it's not like the minister is at the table or was ever at the table, so it's people that they appoint. That may be in tune with education, maybe not, but I'll give you an example.

Vito Totino:

So one of our main concerns last time was violence and the increasing amount of violence in the schools. Or I can tell you, based on statistics that I keep from my school board, that violence has increased significantly. We've already surpassed the total number of violent incidents this year than we did all of last year in our school board. So it's not going away, it's getting worse. But when we were at the bargaining table, the government claimed there was no violence problem because they didn't see any statistics. Show me the statistics is what they basically told us. So now OECDA has put out a survey to get the information from their members about how much violence they're experiencing. They're gathering the statistics from boards about how much violence there is out there so that they have that in hand the next time they're at the table to inform the party of what exactly is going on. But if someone, if on the other side, was actually in the schools, saw what was going on, they would already know that. But they don't.

Julia Pennella:

As the chair of the Political Advisory Committee with the Ontario English Catholic Teachers Association, what kind of initiatives were you championing and what proud wins would you like to share with our listeners?

Vito Totino:

the other units around the province were connected politically, so each unit should have a political action committee locally. But I found, as a chair of the local committee, that I didn't know who the chair was of Dufferin Peel or who the chair was of Toronto or wherever. So I found that that was not very conducive to an environment where we are supposed to be collaborative and working together and trying to push a common message forward. So that was one thing that we put in place. I'll speak to some of the stuff that we've done locally.

Vito Totino:

Currently we are in a bit of a situation where our board has started cutting teachers. Parents don't really know about that. They don't really know about what the cuts are, how that's going to affect their kids. Not even many of our members knew what the cuts were. So our political action committee put together a graphic to explain that to our members about. These are the cuts, these are who's affected, this is how it's going to affect your classroom. We need to better fund our classrooms because my student, my child, is losing this, they're losing that, they're never going to have this opportunity because of your cuts, and so we need to reverse that and invest in our system and with teachers, and they're not just teachers anymore.

Julia Pennella:

I think from what you and I grew up with in the classroom, I've seen now, with a lot of different elements, teachers are social workers. They're like language therapists, like it's. There's a magnitude of issues because our society has, I think, become more complex. On that note, how do you think social media and AI are changing the way students learn and take information? You know, I've heard it's really great in some cases, but worse in others. Are we seeing new opportunities here, or is it making it harder for students to really absorb and engage with what they're learning?

Vito Totino:

So I think both, julia. I can tell you that, as someone who went through high school without social media barely had an internet connection at home didn't have any of those distractions right. We talked to our friends on the phone, we met up outside, we went places. That's not what's happening with kids nowadays. They're meeting up online, sharing memes, sharing GIFs, and then you get to the not-so-good stuff of the cyberbullying which is a big problem in schools right now. So there's that negative aspect of the distractions and the negative bullying that can happen.

Vito Totino:

The positive thing about social media is that teachers have started using this as teaching tools. I can speak to my own examples where, when Facebook was popular now I'm dating myself a little bit, but I had my history. Students create Facebook pages for historical figures Great. When I was teaching politics, grade 12 politics I had students, as part of their project, create threads on Twitter. Twitter back then was a much safer place where discussions happened Not like that anymore, but that was good because they were able to draw in opinions from other people in the fields experts and whatnot to help expand their own knowledge base, and that was all done through social media. Ai same thing. There's negatives, there's positives.

Vito Totino:

As teachers, we need to be able to embrace this tool because it's not going away. This is the new reality. So we either use it in our teaching and teach kids how to use it properly. We can't ignore it. It has to be done that way because the kids are going to use it. When this started out, the kids were using it to write their essays, write their reports, and we had no idea we could sense that they were off. It's a bit strange. I mean, this student doesn't speak like this in class and here they are with this paper. But if we start using it as a teaching tool to help them understand that, yeah, this program can write this paper for you, but what have you learned from that? Right? So it's going to be a reality. In the jobs that they go to, they're going to be using it. I have colleagues that I work with that use it to write their emails, and it's not a bad thing. Just helps them save some time. The information is there. So we really need to embrace it as a learning tool.

Julia Pennella:

Yeah, and I think, emphasis on tool, because I've seen cases too in university, like online, of people just you can just type in write me an essay on Shakespeare, write me an analysis on Romeo and Juliet. And yeah, it's unfortunate because I'm a lifelong learner, I love to learn and I really accredit that to the amazing teachers I had growing up, but it's unfortunate, I agree with you. You didn't learn or gain anything, you just learned to type in a few keywords and then it shoots something out for you that you might not have even proofread, I imagine. Right right, Exactly On that note as well as we talk about funding for students, how are teachers learning these AI tools?

Julia Pennella:

I know and this is an age-old argument in government government's always slow to adapt to technology. It's just a fact historically. But how are teachers given the cuts? I know you guys have professional days where you learn different things on what's going on, but it's never going to be as fast enough as the kids are picking up, especially at the speed we're seeing today. So is the onus on the teachers to learn these tools and protect themselves as well? Or, I know you're a very specific board, but is the board and the government providing those tools for teachers to integrate that in classroom.

Vito Totino:

So they should be. They're not. The onus should be on the employer to provide the training to the teachers that are going to use these tools. They're in their classrooms. They can't shut them out. They're there, so at least teach them how to use them. So right now, it's the teachers themselves. If they have shown an interest in it, they've learned about it and they're using it in their classroom to teach the kids Great. But there's so many out there that still have no idea what this is, how to use it, how to spot it, and students work things like that. So there's a huge gap there and a huge opportunity for the ministry and the employer to really really provide some good training to the teachers so that you know they talk about stream, they talk about STEAM and engineering and all this stuff all the time. Here it is right here. This is an opportunity for you to bridge that gap in knowledge and help your teachers, help the students, expand their knowledge base and use this tool effectively.

Julia Pennella:

Yeah, I agree with you and it should be interesting and I was giving a lot of thought about this. Leading up to our conversation is I know I think it was you can maybe crack me I think it was two or three years ago there was a huge push from the Ontario government to integrate coding into classrooms. Right At the time it was good, but it's interesting to see now, now AI. You don't even need to learn how to code because the AI can do it for you. So I wonder if there's going to be a switch in that curriculum of, because we've heard, both federally and provincially, they want to push more skilled trades in schools. I don't think it will happen, unfortunately, unless there's a collaboration between industry and the public service, which always, always, again, also has its own hiccups. But, given these cuts, do you see that as a possible future of rising up in the more life skills of you know finances, understanding what a mortgage is, being able to cook for yourself, all of these that are being lost because of technology?

Vito Totino:

Yeah, so I mean, pathways are always important for students, right? Not everyone is going to end up being a lawyer or a banker or a doctor. Some people just would rather be using their hands to build a home or do some electrical work or work in a bakery or whatever it is. So pathways to those are very important in our schools. Over the years we've lost those pathways. They seem to be making a comeback, and that's great.

Vito Totino:

The problem I have with it is how the government is going about it. So, by mandating a certain amount of tech courses without providing the resources, the tech teachers, the equipment, the time for these students to do that work, it's not going to work. The other flip side of it is that they've changed some of the requirements for the Ontario Secondary School diploma, so students now could essentially start an apprenticeship at the age of 16, and maybe they don't finish high school and they just continue working. Well, that's good for that particular person until they decide they don't want to do that job anymore or they get hurt and can't do that job anymore. Then they don't even have a high school diploma to fall back on, right? So we have very, very interesting situations that the government is playing out. It's almost like they're streaming these students towards that direction just to supply workers for their developer friends, but not necessarily keeping the well-being of the students in mind.

Julia Pennella:

Given Canada being such a strong immigrant society, multicultural we're both children of immigrants there's definitely that push, I think, from those communities. You got to go to university, you got to get an education and I think education, as we both agreed on, is very important. But the reality is with the market too. Is skilled trades pays more than having a master's degree?

Vito Totino:

Absolutely. I mean, my dad was carbon term. My father-in-law's an electrician. I tell my kids all the time there's nothing wrong with it If that's what you want to do, but you're going to go to school to learn the trades. You're going to get the proper education, the proper skills, the proper training so that you can do it properly and well and maybe one day you want to own your own business. That information is. Education is very important for that.

Julia Pennella:

Absolutely, Because it still is a profession. There's so much intricacies with it and those sectors they're evolving in, the materials we're using, the construction tools, so that there's a lot of things. So I totally agree with you on that front and there's an entrepreneurial aspect to it if you choose to go or you know. I think it comes back to making sure kids are aware that these are the options, because I felt like that was not an option for me going through school. No, it wasn't there.

Vito Totino:

The pathways just weren't there. Back when I was in high school as well, there was a shop class. I mean, it wasn't even an option. It wasn't even a thought in my head to go and take shop right. But now you know, opening some eyes to it, showing people that there's a possibility. If you don't want to sitting at a desk or standing in front of a lecture hall, there's another possibility for you.

Julia Pennella:

Yeah, absolutely, and I think even more so. That needs to be a message for young girls. I think that was something that at the time I was like, oh you know, there's not gonna be any women in that class Do I really want to take we had just shop as well, or end woodworking in my high school. But yeah, there was that a little hesitancy because I didn't feel comfortable in it. I don't know if it's changed now. I have been working on the labor file, have seen some more women come into the space, but it's only after they've done a university degree and said I can't make money off of my university degree. I'm going to go do the trades and make good money and somewhat have a balanced lifestyle. Like, construction works a little difficult, but that's why you know there was a push for 10-day childcare.

Vito Totino:

Yeah, so I am seeing more girls go into it. But also it's expanded right. So it's not just wood shop and auto shop anymore. You go into any of our high schools and you'll find a salon. You'll find a nutrition class, food and nutrition, you'll find hospitality. You'll find com tech, engineering, robotics All those things are there where beforehand girls may have been intimidated to go into that auto shop or that wood shop, but they won't be intimidated to go into that robotics class or the com tech room to apply their trade there.

Julia Pennella:

And I hope to keep seeing that momentum going. So, with all the technology we have now, the way kids learn and the way parents are involved in a child's education has really changed. You know, these days, teachers are just an email away and parents can check in on their child's progress in real time through online platforms. It's a big shift from how things used to be. So I'm curious, vito, how do you think this has changed the relationship between teachers and parents? Is it making things easier or is it creating some new challenges for everyone involved?

Vito Totino:

So I think it's definitely created challenges, but it's also an opportunity where, if teachers use it properly. So I'll give an example of what I did. When I realized that parents had access to me at all hours of the day, I would set limits right away of okay, I will respond to emails, and I told parents from this on day one I will respond to emails up until 5 pm. You can send an email after, but I'm just not going to answer it until the next day. So setting those boundaries up right away is very successful, allowing the parents still, if they have an idea in their head that they want to get to you, go ahead and send it to you, but don't expect that I'm going to respond right away. And actually one of the good things that this PC government did under Ford was create the right to disconnect policy, which tells every employer in the province that they have to have their own policy where workers have to disconnect, and we have that on our board. So anytime a parent or even a colleague sends an email outside of hours, we always remind them. You know, right to disconnect policy. Please respect my right to disconnect. I'll respond to you within working hours.

Vito Totino:

The problem is that with social media, parents see instant reaction right and so they expect that instant reaction from their teachers.

Vito Totino:

And with phones in the classrooms, especially in the higher grades, they're getting feedback from their children all day long about what's happening in the classroom. And then sometimes and it's happened to me in the past where I'll get a phone call from a parent in the middle of the day about something that happened in first period, for example, and you're like, okay, well, you know in the past you would have at least gone home, talked to your parents about it, and then maybe the next day I'll hear about it, but it's happening during the day. So part of the movement to get the phones out of the classroom, I think, is geared towards that. Trying to give that breathing room, that natural conversation piece happening at home will help in the dialogue. Phones can be very good teaching tools if teachers decide to use them, but a lot of the times they're just distractions for the students and then they also have that constant connection with parents all day long where I don't know about you, julia, but I didn't have that until my parents got home at the end of the day.

Julia Pennella:

Yeah, I was just about to say like my mom was maybe keeping in touch with whatever calendar I had in my backpack or little note in my agenda, but otherwise, like she also just trusted the teachers to do their thing and if there was a problem she trusted me to bring it to her. You've been in the teaching space for quite a long time. Do you think there's a different level of anxiety when it comes to parents and I don't want to use the word helicopter parent, but I'm not a parent, so I really can't speak to this from my personal experience but it feels like again, maybe it could be that social media of being constantly tapped in, but do you sense there's a bit more of anxiety or wanting to be more involved in the students and their learning and critiquing the teachers at the same time? And do you think I argue, but I would be interested in your perspective that COVID also played a role in that heightened anxiety?

Vito Totino:

I mean. So I think it was there before COVID. I don't think COVID played into it. It was there before COVID. It's still there now.

Vito Totino:

I'm a parent of two children in the system. I try my hardest not to be that way. I know all of their teachers through the association and through working for the same school board. They know me. We have very good relationships together and so I try not to be that parent that is always harping on every little thing that's going on. I try to empower my children to be those advocates for themselves.

Vito Totino:

So if my kid comes home with me, comes home to me with a problem, and let's say my daughter says, oh, way too much homework today, I don't know what's going on. And then I pull her aside and you know there's a policy in the school board that says you can only have 10 minutes of homework per grade. So if you're in grade seven, that's only 70 minutes. You've done three hours of homework tonight. I think maybe tomorrow go to your teacher and say you know, miss, I think there's a little bit too much homework tonight. Just remember the board has a policy. I'm very happy to do the homework that you assign, but please respect the policy. Right and it's happened and they've done it and they feel great about it when they come home.

Vito Totino:

I don't want to be that advocate for them all the time, because then it takes away that very important skill that it's not just about school, but even when they're outside of school being able to advocate for themselves is so important. So, yeah, it existed before COVID, it's here still now. It's not the same as it was when we were growing up, julia, very different. Social media technology definitely has a role to play in that. But I caution parents and I encourage them to teach your kids the self-advocacy tools. Let them be the ones that solve their own problems.

Julia Pennella:

Yeah, 100% I agree with that and I'll take those lessons whenever I have my kids. But you know, as we're talking about different policies and union work, as we started off the conversation with, I think there's a lot of misconceptions on what unions do and their representation and some people just see unions as just about focusing on contracts and wages. But the role goes far beyond that. We talked about points on advocacy. How would you describe the full scope bit of a big question here but the scope of what unions really do and how that can better the education environment for teachers and for students?

Vito Totino:

Yeah, so you know, in recording this podcast with you, julia, we just recently lost Pope Francis, a great unionist, great defender of unions. A few years ago he was presenting to the Italian Labor Congress and he said that unions are the voices of the voiceless. And he also said that in our capitalist systems it is impossible to have a society that is both humane and decent without the work that unions do to bring about social justice. And so if we keep that image of what unions are in mind because we do live in a capitalist system, even though in Canada we like to think that we're not as capitalist as the Americans, it's there and if we elect parties that are anti-union for profit, for market, we're going to get in danger of a situation where our social safety net, our welfare system that we have come to love in this country, is going to start being eroded. We see federal parties running on platforms that they claim are worker-friendly, but then they have fundraisers with owners of American hospitals and we're supposed to believe that when they get into office they're not going to try to promote that American-style healthcare system. I mean, so we have to keep that in mind. But unions really are there to protect the worker from that market.

Vito Totino:

So a lot of the things that we've seen previous governments put in place dental care programs, childcare programs, pharmaceutical programs all of that comes from unions.

Vito Totino:

Right, unions already have that stuff for their workers Great medical benefits, great dental benefits, vision benefits. All of that stuff is always there and that helps raise the standard of living for the workers in society, whereas if it was left to the profiteering of the corporations, we wouldn't have any of that stuff, because that stuff costs money and that hurts the bottom line. So if we keep what Pope Francis said in mind, so if we keep what Pope Francis said in mind, union's job is to give the voice to the voiceless, which is the workers. And I think that our job, even though we're education specific, is to try to keep that bar, whether it's for the students or for the teachers, of dignity in the classroom and dignity in society, of being able to live a life that is full and live a life that is meaningful and not just trying to scrape by and get by and get ahead, that there is meaning to our life and that the unions provide that safety net to everyone.

Julia Pennella:

That was very beautifully said and I didn't know Pope Francis said that either, so he absolutely did. Thank you for sharing that to myself and the listeners here. And when we talk about speaking up and feeling empowered through the unions, how do you think unions balance that power between workers and employers, because it's a very delicate relationship? You pointed out to a few really good pieces there of understanding what's the purpose of this and the human aspect of it. But, yeah, how do they help people who may not feel empowered to speak up?

Vito Totino:

and they are at their wit's end, where they've done as much as they could to not say anything. But now it's really, really affecting them and they need to speak up. And so they come to us for help. And our job is not to hammer the employer, but our job is to raise issue with the employer and to remind the employer of contracts that they entered into freely through collective bargaining, and to say you know, this is the agreement that we had.

Vito Totino:

It doesn't seem like you're keeping your part of the agreement based on X, y and Z. So what are we going to do to remedy that, to ensure that this worker feels safe, feels empowered in their classroom and feels protected while they are working for you in the workplace? So I honestly, like a lot of people out there, feel like it's clash all the time, but for me, the relationship between unions and the employers has to be collaborative, has to be one where we can pick up the phone and call each other and say like this is going on. We don't need a formal meeting to figure this out. Let's just sort this out and get this worker back to feeling like they are a valuable member of the team, because that's all the workers want? They just want to be able to do their job, be respected, do it safely and be compensated fairly for it.

Julia Pennella:

Well said and 100% agree with you on that, and I think, unfortunately. I think there's because of that clash. Sometimes between worker and employer, there's this assumption that they don't want to be there, but most workers put their heart into everything they do. They're passionate. They're going to be spending their lives clocking in and out. They might as well do something that they like. So, really well said. And one of my last questions here is what advice do you have for parents when it comes to engaging with their kids' education as well? As you know, to some of the points you said about supporting their children, whether it's through advocacy or understanding different elements of their educational journey, what advice do you have?

Vito Totino:

Yeah. So I think one of the key things is to make a connection with the teacher early. So do that in September A nice friendly email, a card that you send with your child for the teacher, just introducing yourself, so that it starts off on good terms, so that the first time you're not speaking to the teacher is because of a problem, right. And then there's going to be different feelings at that point. But if you start out positive and you keep that collaborative relationship throughout the year, I find that that works wonders.

Vito Totino:

I've done that as a teacher, I've done that as a parent. I think that is the best way forward in terms of empowering your children to be better advocates. Give them the chance. A lot of the times we just want to do it for them. Keep them happy, solve their problems. They can do it. They can do it because you are their role model. They've been watching you do it year after year, problem after problem. Give them a chance, you know. Have a talk with them. Give them the tools they need, the information they need, but give them a chance. You'll be very, very pleasantly surprised at what they can do.

Julia Pennella:

Well said, what a way to end it. So that was Vito, totino Vito. Any other closing thoughts?

Vito Totino:

I just wanted to say. A lot of times people think unions are this body that's out there, but for the workers, the union is them. They are the union. Without them there wouldn't be a union. So don't be afraid of unions. We're out there to support each other and keep each other working safely and having a great time doing it.

Julia Pennella:

Well said. Well, that's a wrap on today's episode of let's Talk Politics. Please tune in next week for my next special guest. See you there.

Vito Totino:

Thanks, Julia.