Let's Talk Politics

Ep 14: Rooted in Resistance: Power, Politics & Community with Nneka Allen

• Julia Pennella • Season 1 • Episode 14

Share episode

What does it mean when your very existence becomes political? When a simple lawn sign signals far more than party preference? When motherhood itself becomes a political act?

Nneka Allen, founder of the Empathy Agency Inc., guides us through these profound questions in an unforgettable conversation that transcends typical political discourse. Drawing from her family's deep roots in the Underground Railroad and growing up in Windsor's historic Sandwich Town, Allen reveals how socialism and communalism shaped her worldview long before she understood political labels.

"If one person is struggling, it's everyone's business," Allen explains, describing the philosophy that guided her family and now informs her support of the NDP. For Allen, displaying an NDP lawn sign in a Conservative neighbourhood isn't about opposition but alignment: ensuring her actions match her values, regardless of community pressure.

The conversation takes a powerful turn as Allen articulates how Black women's identities carry inherent political weight in a society built on white supremacy. "Everything I do that doesn't align with the standard of whiteness is a political act," she shares, from her decision to stop straightening her hair decades ago to the strategic choices about which spaces she enters. This constant navigation between dominant culture and authentic selfhood permeates every aspect of her life.

As co-editor of "Collecting Courage," Allen discusses the importance of Black people telling their own stories to counter strategic erasure from national memory. These narratives encompass both pain and joy—a multiplicity that challenges simplified portrayals of Black experience. The oral traditions that sustained her family's history through generations now serve as tools for expanding our collective consciousness.

Perhaps most thought-provoking is Allen's exploration of "radical kinship"—reimagining who we consider related to us. This framework challenges capitalist individualism, asking us to consider what society might look like if policies centered on love and community rather than profit.

Despite the discouraging aspects of our current political landscape, Allen leaves us with a powerful reminder of hope: "Our power is always with the people, it's always in community." From a woman descended from those who "weren't meant to survive," this message resonates with undeniable truth—we are more powerful than we've been led to believe.

About Nneka Allen:

Nneka Allen is a Black Afro-Métis woman, a Momma, and a descendant of the Underground Railroad. Her ancestry includes African survivors of the Transatlantic Slave Trade who built North America through both free and forced labour on stolen land.

Over centuries, her freedom-seeking ancestors forged connections with the First Peoples of Turtle Island, linking Nneka to her Cherokee and Lumbee heritage.

As a relationship builder, stone-catcher, freedom fighter, storyteller, and leadership coach. In 2018, Nneka founded The Empathy Agency Inc., where she has a passion for guiding clients toward hope, purpose, and justice in their connections with themselves, others, and Earth.  Empowering wholeness and embracing humanity through empathy is her mission!

Website: https://www.theempathyagency.ca/meet-the-founder

Bsky: https://bsky.app/profile/nnekaallen.bsky.social

Substack: https://substack.com/@nnekaallen

Julia Pennella:

Welcome back to let's Talk Politics. Today's episode is one I've really been looking forward to. We're diving into a conversation that's not just political. It's personal, powerful, thought-provoking and deeply reflective. My guest today is Nneka Allen, founder of the Empathy Agency Inc. We'll be talking about how something as simple as an NDP lawn sign becomes more than just a political statement, especially in a predominantly conservative area. It's about what that sign symbolizes, what it means to take a stand and make your values visible, even when your community might not agree with you. We'll also dive into how our identities as women are inherently political, whether we choose it or not, and what it means to carry that weight within institutions that were built without us in mind and often against us. We'll also dig into radical kinship and how it challenges the way our capitalist, individualist society operates. What would it look like if our policies were rooted in love, care and deep community? Plus, we'll talk about Nneka's co-authored book Collecting Courage, the power dynamics in philanthropy and how ancestral wisdom and oral traditions can help guide us towards justice. It's a rich and layered conversation that gets to the heart of what it means to live and lead with intention. So let's talk politics with Nneka Allen.

Julia Pennella:

Hello everybody, welcome back to another episode of let's talk politics. Today, I have the brilliant Nneka Allen joining us from bc. She's a relationship builder, a freedom fighter, a storyteller and leadership coach, and she's also the founder of the Empathy Agency Inc., where she helps her clients explore the impact of identity on culture and equity outcomes. Today, we're going to be putting a little twist on her work and we're going to be talking about politics and her work and her activism around it. So, Nneka, thank you so much for joining us today.

Nneka Allen:

Thank you, Julia. I'm so glad to be here with you.

Julia Pennella:

I'm really looking forward to this conversation and you know we're just days away from the federal election and we've seen some really big things happening on the national stage. You and I have had some great chats about it already. You told me something that really stood out that you live in a predominantly conservative riding, but you've got an NDP sign proudly displayed on your front lawn. What can you tell me about why it's important for you to put that sign out there, especially knowing the political vibe of your neighborhood?

Nneka Allen:

Okay. So I think to answer this question well, you first have to understand where I come from, and I grew up in Windsor, ontario, in the oldest part of the city, sandwich Town, and I come from a family that has deep roots in socialism, communalism, socialism communalism, in fact, as a descendant of Underground Railroad. That is the way that we survive in community with one another. If one person was not okay, that was everybody's business, and so my family very much continues that culture in our family. And so when I think about politics, despite the fact that my family always and for the most part, I should say, my nuclear family have voted NDP, that's not the sole reason why I now support them. I can see now, as an adult, certainly, that their platform aligns the most with the values of my family and my own personal values as an adult, and particularly as a Black, afro-maidy woman that has been in Canada my entire life. My family had been here for many generations, and so I wasn't thinking about a sign on my lawn. The NDP called me actually while I was in Ontario and asked me if I would put a sign on my lawn. The NDP called me actually while I was in Ontario and asked me if I would put a sign on my lawn and I said, oh, I think I would, but I live in a multi-generational home, so let me talk to my daughter and her husband and see how they feel about it. And so I did.

Nneka Allen:

I spoke to them and the more I started to think about it, the more I started to feel like it was an important signal in my community to my neighbors about what I value.

Nneka Allen:

And it doesn't matter to me what people think about that.

Nneka Allen:

What matters to me is that my life and the things that I do, so the decisions I make and the actions I take, are consistent with what I believe and what me and my family value, and I think that sign in a lot of ways is an extension of that, is a signal of that, and I think that's probably really important in the current environment, where it can be really difficult and perhaps dangerous in some circumstances to say what you believe and to be transparent about where you stand politically. And when I think about the NDP and the work that they've done over the last several years, for me, this is the only party that actually has received receipts for our work that has, or in policy that has benefited people like me, people in my community, people who aren't wealthy, people who are living average lives and who need help, and so that just brings me back to the way in which my family organizes itself. If one person is struggling, it's everyone's business, and I feel that is true in the NDP party.

Julia Pennella:

Well said and I want to dive into that point about when it comes to community, especially in your family. How did you see that atmosphere growing up? Were your parents politically active? Do you think that's important for, especially in this generation when social media is all encompassing and consuming with different political views? But is it important to have these conversations at home with your family, with your kids, even if they're not a voting age?

Nneka Allen:

100%. And, yes, my parents were politically active. My father was involved in local politics. I remember as a young person knocking doors for him. He sat on the school board. My uncle, his brother, sat on the city council, and so canvassing was a part of my youth.

Nneka Allen:

There's nothing quite like getting over the fear of knocking on doors and to be involved in campaigning political campaigning, right. So I saw that up close and both of my parents made it very clear what we believe, what we value and what it means to be socially active Right. For black people. You know, nothing changes for us unless we are involved. For Black people, you know nothing changes for us unless we are involved. And so that message was sent to me not just through words, but also through what I observed, what I saw my parents do, and so, as a mother myself now very much adopt that. I don't know if it's fully conscious, but I think that we absorb these messages and these lessons and we take them into ourselves and then we turn them into something new, and so I've certainly brought that into my parenting in more ways than I'm even aware, I think.

Julia Pennella:

Yeah well said and that's a great segue into my next question here of, you know, being a mother. How do you influence those political commitments and what kind of future are you envisioning for your daughter and future generation of women in terms of justice, accountability and that really key collective care piece?

Nneka Allen:

Yeah. So it's interesting. When you think about being a mom, the first thing that comes to your mind is not how you influence your kids, politically necessarily. But it's interesting that my, on my father's side of the family, my grandmother, my, so my maternal grandmother, was a rare, a rare being in that she invited debate from her kids. She actually got a kick out of it. And so there's this cultural fabric in that side of my family that is laced with an expectation of analysis and idea. And if you have an analysis and if you have an idea, it better be good, right, because we're not giving you a break, because you're a kid, right? And so I grew up watching that sort of sparring and intellectual inspiration, and intellectual inspiration happening across generations, and so I very much employ that in my relationship with my daughter.

Nneka Allen:

When I think about influence, my motherly influence, I think about it through the lens of stewardship. I think that I have a role and responsibility to offer information and shaping for her to consider and to absorb how she sees fit, and I think a big part of that is debate, right, watching the news together, sharing current issues and perhaps arguing about it. You know, the other day I was sitting on the couch with her and I made a comment about why I believe the Green Party is struggling and she said you're wrong. And then we got into a debate about it. I think that's healthy, I think that's important. Our kids see us take a position and our actions align with that position. They can determine for themselves what value that has, both in the nuclear family but then also for them individually. So I think healthy debate, you know, not shying away from what's happening in the world around us. From a young age I ensured that my daughter traveled so she understood like the world is not about you and it's much bigger than you could ever imagine, and so I think all of that lends itself to these sorts of important conversations.

Nneka Allen:

It's interesting I've learned through her eyes more recently, actually in the last, I would say, five years, as she is nearing the age of young people deciding whether or not they want to have a family. And she's because of the political circumstances, because of the state of our world. She's an environmental scientist, so is her husband. Because of the state of our world, she's an environmental scientist, so is her husband. And because of these political issues, particularly around the environment, particularly around injustice, this question of whether or not they want to have a family is a primary feature in our lives, and at first I think that surprised me, because I can remember when I was young and thinking about these things, this was not something that I was thinking about, right, and so I've taken the time to get closer to her to understand.

Nneka Allen:

You know what's weighing on her as she's trying to decide what to do, what's weighing on her as she's trying to decide what to do, and so that gives me a different perspective of the political landscape and the impact that it has.

Nneka Allen:

And so when I think about the future, I'm thinking about how do I contribute to a world where these are not the concerns that young people have? I mean, if you don't want to have kids, that's okay, but if the decision around having kids is based on political elements, that's a different thing, right, and that grieves me, but I understand it. The sense of responsibility that I hear in her voice when we're having those conversations cannot be ignored, and so therein lies a real injustice, I think, for young women, childbearing age women. But it's funny. I trust her, I trust that she will make the decisions that she needs to make, and I'm really curious to see what those decisions end up being, and so then the question for me becomes whatever the decision is, how do I rally around that and perhaps stretch my own politics to help ensure that whatever her decision is is a good one, is a, is a is a useful one for her life?

Julia Pennella:

decision is, is a good one, is a useful one for her life. That was I'm getting like emotional, I think, just on so many different levels. One I think it sounds like you have a really close and open relationship with your daughter and I'm glad to hear that, because I have some friends who are also in that stage of life and they don't have that same level of understanding from their parents. The first thing is are you guys trying? You know, when are you having your baby? And one of my good friends, she, just got a promotion working the Department of Finance in a very senior position and that's still the thing that keeps coming up from her in-laws.

Julia Pennella:

What advice do you have for mothers who still have this I don't want to say backward idea, because I think there's an element of wanting to grow the family and having that generational community. But, like you said, environment is a huge piece justice, the financial cost in this economy. I had another friend who just had a baby and they're like I want to have another one but I don't know if I can afford it. Yeah, what advice would you have about opening up that dialogue between both parties, not being so defensive of? I just want babies?

Nneka Allen:

So let me just say I was that person as well, I was that mom that was saying OK, so like I'm ready, are you guys ready? Because I'm ready and because I have that open relationship with my daughter, she just really said to me one day stop, stop, stop asking me that. And at first, you know, I felt bad about it because I was thinking about me first, that this is not a conversation about me, that this needed to be a conversation about her. And once I got there in my mother's mind, I was then curious. I wanted to understand okay, why do you want me to stop saying that or asking you that question? Because I know that my daughter's a really thoughtful person and I thought, well, what's she thinking about? She's not the type of person to just tell you. You have to ask her, right. And so I had to sit down and spend time and ask her and I had to really listen, wanted to hear, but to hear what was happening for her.

Nneka Allen:

And I think I had to really come to terms with the fact that we live in a different world, like an increasingly different world. You know, I'm a Gen Xer. My parents are boomers. Yes, there's differences, sort of, in between those two generations certainly, but I think around the nuclear family or around, you know, family planning, there's a lot of consistency for the most part, right. The question about whether or not to have kids is sort of like still a no-brainer, like well, yeah, you get married, right.

Nneka Allen:

And so I had to come to the realization that this world is different, that they are living, they are growing up, in a different world, and, of course, context matters, and so I had to understand the context through her eyes.

Nneka Allen:

So this is not just about being a mom. I think this is about how we want to be in this world with other people and, again, because I view my parenting through the lens of stewardship, I don't think I own my daughter. She came through me and I have a responsibility to her. I have a responsibility to her that is unique, but I also have a responsibility to the people in my community, and so the question about how do we want to be in this world with other people is something that's really central to my work, and I had to move that into more. I would say I had to move it more centrally into this conversation with my daughter. I don't know if I can give advice to other moms. But curiosity about what's real for them, I think is deeply valuable, if for nothing else, to understand what's happening for them, what they see right, and you might be surprised when they show you what they see.

Julia Pennella:

See it might change what you see yeah, a lot of, I think, really beautiful visuals as well. When you said she came through me, I, we know it, I think, at an atomical, biological level, but like, I feel like there was just such a spiritual presence, the way that you said that, or at least how I visualized it. And I also really liked the point how you said you trust your daughter's choice, and that's, I think, tells to kind of letting go a little bit and letting her be her own person, and I think that's something that I'm still struggling with a little bit with my relationship with my parents. And as we're talking about these elements, they are unfortunately very political. Being a woman often means our lives are seen through a political lens, whether we choose it or not. For yourself, as you mentioned, a Black woman, a mother and an activist, there's that added complexity to that experience. So why do you think your identity and women's identities carry this additional political weight?

Nneka Allen:

Well, I can only speak as a Black woman, which is not to say that it is completely distinct from other women, but it is unique. Distinct from other women, but it is unique. I think to answer this question, we have to first understand how the dominant culture white supremacy culture has designated the role of Black women in this society historically and present day. And while the roles may not look exactly the same, the beliefs that create the roles is exactly the same, and so Black women have always been at the bottom of the social caste system. As a descendant of enslaved people, I understand intimately how Black bodies, and the body of the Black woman in particular, has been used, has been abused, and there's an expectation of service toward the dominant culture.

Nneka Allen:

Anything I do as a Black woman that steps outside of that box of servitude, of caring for anything I do to step outside of that box is political, is a challenge to the status quo right. Everything, every little thing. The day, 25 years ago, I decided to stop straightening my hair Political. The day I stopped code switching. Political.

Nneka Allen:

Everything I do that doesn't align with the standard of whiteness is a political act, and so my entire life, if I continue to choose to live outside of a status quo and, by the way, Black communities by and large, do we have to reenter it in order to live, because the bulk of our work exists inside that culture and those systems. But our community connections, a lot of the time, exist outside of that space, and so we do this navigating back and forth. That's also political. So how much time do we spend outside of that? You know, in my life now I strategically try to spend less and less time in spaces where dominant culture is the expectation and the norm. So that means I say no to certain things, I say no to certain people. That's political. And so I mean the question why does my identity carry this additional political weight? It's because the fabric of our society was made from our bodies, the bodies of Black people.

Julia Pennella:

And one point as well that came to mind is when you said when you stopped straightening your hair. That was a political moment and Michelle Obama has been doing a lot more interviews. And I was shocked when she said you know, I'm wearing my braids now because I wasn't allowed to when I was first lady, because it was controversial, it was political, controversial, it was political and I grew up in a predominantly white Italian community and not understanding the different realities that people experience. So I'm also really happy to see more Black media out there. You know I love Black-ish Tracee.

Julia Pennella:

Ellis Ross is one of my idols and I also really love the spinoff where she's a younger girl in Grown-ish. It's so beautiful to see and it's not in these caricatured, tokenized ways. It's actual Black stories being told in the realities, from joy to the realization of police brutality and discrimination. I want to point to your book that you've published, collecting Courage Very deeply emotional piece. I highly recommend everyone to get it and read it. But there's a very strong political element to that book. How do you view the expression of Black joy and freedom as resistance in a society that often politicizes Black pain but ignores Black?

Nneka Allen:

thriving from Canada and the United States predominantly Canada fundraisers, talking about their firsthand experiences of racial violence in their nonprofit or charitable organization. These stories, by and large, are painful stories, but the thing that we understood as editors I'm one of three editors of the book, authors and editors the thing we understood, knowing that that's what the totality of the book would be is that there's a multiplicity of truths in our experience. So, while we are suffering and surviving anti-Black racism, we are also cultivating joy. We are also designing our own freedom. We are also finding new and more beautiful, robust ways of loving one another, one another. And yes, there's a section on pain, particularly because without understanding the harm, we will never find ourselves grieving for what was lost. And grief, I believe, is the entryway to change. And so there's a balance here. We have to understand the problem and we sometimes have to sit with the problem, but we don't do that to politicize, we don't do that to just simply quote, make people feel bad. People feel bad. We're doing that because what we're trying to get at is the inhumanity of the issue, so that we can start to grieve it and change it. So that's really important. And so when we're doing that, when we are focused on the pain or expressing the pain or sharing our stories, it doesn't mean we can't also have joy, express love and conjure freedom. We can, and we do in fact, and you can see in the book when you read the stories, that those themes overlap in all of these really interesting ways. Interesting ways.

Nneka Allen:

I also think that when we are talking about Black pain or when we are profiling the stories of Black people, that it needs to be Black people telling those stories Because, again, it's theirs. It's theirs to tell. And if they don't want to tell it and perhaps they want to tell a different story, that's up to them too. And not everybody is going to want to tell their story all the time and some stories are meant for a season. I believe that, and so you tell it, and it's been told For me.

Nneka Allen:

I tell my stories as a form of healing. As a form of healing, so the sting and the pain of racism that I experience is quenched when I write the story and I tell it publicly, because then the issue is no longer mine. I don't hold it. The perpetrators can hold it. So that's me and that's not everybody's process. So that's me and that's not everybody's process. Processes can look very different, but I think one Black people need to tell their own stories. I think there's nothing more powerful than first person narratives. It is the stuff of history, and so more Black people do need to tell their stories, because we have an avalanche of white stories out here, right, and so they need to be counterbalanced with the realities and the lives of Black people. And pain doesn't exist in a vacuum, and in Black communities, pain often exists with joy, with freedom, with love. Wow.

Julia Pennella:

Really powerful stuff and, as we're talking about sharing those experiences and that being a healing piece for you specifically, you know, drawing on your wisdom of your African and Indigenous ancestors, in the political climate where so much of our collective memory seems to be overlooked or forgotten or, you know, overtaken by white narratives and told through that lens, how can we make sure that ancestral knowledge and stories, and that collective pain and joy piece as well, and those deep traditions, play a role in shaping, whether it's policies we create at a political level or even just the functions of our society and our engagement within communities?

Nneka Allen:

Such a great question. So when I read this question it made me think of an interview I did last year with Nicole Hannah Jones, the creator of the 1619 Project, and in one of the questions I asked her I quoted from the introduction of that book and I think I want to share that quote because it gets at this question. In the introduction of the book Nicole wrote the introduction. She quotes a historian, peter H Wood, and he's talking about slavery and denial in this case. After all, as several eminent academics have recently reminded us, nations need to control national memory because nations keep their shape by shaping their citizens' understanding of the past. And so when I think about that truth that he's shared and my African and Indigenous ancestors and that history, it becomes all the more urgent that the truth of my life and the life of my ancestors and people who share my history, those stories, be told so that that's a part of the national memory. I facilitate a course at UBC called Anti-Racism Strategies in the Workplace. I also have my own course called the Racial Equity racial equity blueprint, and I am struck by the number of students and learners who do both of those programs, who have very little knowledge, education or understanding about Indigenous history here in this land and the 200 years of slavery in Canada. That's not by mistake, that's strategic erasure, and so we have to tell more stories. We have to tell our stories. We have to create platforms where more voices are heard, so that the national memory can't be controlled in the same way, so that it is more robust and that is more reflective and more representative. So how do we make ancestral knowledge known in the deep traditions? Well, like you and I are doing right here, conversations connecting, relating. This can't be transactional. This has to be relational. We have to want to sit down and have a conversation about who you are and who I am and how that might intersect. Right For me.

Nneka Allen:

Again, writing, I have to write my stories. I think we have to tell our stories as often as we possibly can to our families. You know, my mother, when I was coming up, told the story of our family's escape through the Underground Railroad. The oral tradition of our families escaped through the Underground Railroad. The oral tradition powerful, necessary. I find myself repeating the stories to my daughter. She says you know, I know these stories. It's okay, you can hear it one more time, because language permeates our bodies, it settles into our soul. These stories are powerful and necessary. You know, at the beginning of Collecting Courage, the editors wrote and I believe this to our Black community in all its diversity our truth, our stories are ours. To tell, our voices are power. We summon you to testify, to document and to share your life. And that is an invitation beyond the Black community, to all marginalized communities, communities that have been excluded and oppressed. We have to document our lives and tell our stories. That's how we stretch the national consciousness.

Julia Pennella:

A few pieces that also resonate with me. I come from an immigrant background and that oral tradition piece is so, so critical. My grandparents immigrated. They were farmers in Italy and the struggle with not having any education, not having any money and just picking up to start a new life across the country. I got the opportunity to actually see where they were born and everything and I just it was just such an emotional journey.

Julia Pennella:

But I can't even imagine when it comes to that generational piece we're coming from the transatlantic slave trade. There's also that missing piece of history and identity for Black communities from that and I can only imagine how hurtful that is not knowing the true kind of lineage of your ancestors and where you come from and what was stripped from you. Same thing with the Indigenous communities and people even still denying residential schools to this day and the exposure of the mass grave sites across Canada. As we talk about these institutions and these narratives, I want to go back to your book as you read the opening or disrupting systems of power and privilege in whether it be political institutions or the institutions and organizations that they serve.

Nneka Allen:

Well, you know. First let's just say what we all know to be true Money talks. People pay attention when money's being affected. We're seeing that play out right now in the political landscape in the United States and all around the world, frankly, right. And so, of course, philanthropy plays a very important role and too often, I would say, I see philanthropy playing roles that just continue the status quo. That is underscored in several different ways in my writing. But this morning, interestingly enough, I read an article in the New York Times about Harvard University and their major donors pressuring them to make a deal with the Trump administration, despite the fact that Harvard has attempted that already. And herein lies the rub. What will Harvard do in the face of philanthropic pressure? And I don't know. I don't know what they're going to do.

Nneka Allen:

As a fundraiser, I can tell you I'm paying very close attention. But again, in my experience, I have watched philanthropy and let me be clear, western philanthropy. I've watched Western philanthropy which, to be honest, emerges out of capitalism, which colludes with white supremacy culture, which colludes with settler colonialism and patriarchy. It continues to uphold the status quo, and that's not surprising given its origins, and that's highly problematic. Now Black people and other people of color have different giving traditions and different philanthropic ways of being and roots that are far more rooted and related to justice, and I would love to see those types of philanthropic ways of being take center stage. But to do that there would have have to be a relinquishing of power and I don't see that happening anytime soon and I don't see that happening anytime soon.

Julia Pennella:

As we're just wrapping up here, I want to point to a sub stack you recently published titled Radical Kinship, and in the opening you say quote to put this in a political and societal context our societies, especially the capitalist ones we operate in, is often rooted in individual. Actually look like to embed the idea of radical kinship into our politics and way of thinking. Would we need to shift a policy or is it at a leadership level for this kind of collective care to become the norm and not the exception?

Nneka Allen:

So I don't have all the answers about radical kinship. This is something I'm exploring and I'm really enjoying it, because two things it makes me ask good questions like who is kin? And questions like what stops me from being radical. And often the answer to that is fear. And so then I have to wrestle with my relationship with fear. But I think radical kinship calls us to stretch and expand our understanding and definition of who is related to us. This brings me to the indigenous knowledge that says all my relations, we're all related. And if we're all related, then what is our responsibility and role toward one another? And then that brings me back to what I said at the top of our time together about the NDP, and I have a feeling that not even just a feeling I have seen how they are concerned about average people. This is not to say they're perfect or that they have figured out radical kinship, but I can say they are the closest to it that I can see currently on the political landscape.

Nneka Allen:

And so the question is bigger than just politics. It's a social question about how do we want to be with one another. Do we want to continue to maintain these hierarchies where there are a few people on top and those people are propped up by the masses on the bottom. Or do we want to rearrange that order so that everyone can have enough, so that everyone can have a dignified, dignity-filled life where their needs are met, where they can contribute to society? And it's not just about people.

Nneka Allen:

I also think radical kinship is about our relationship to the land and to the earth, land into the earth. And then that calls us to really explore, like, the challenges that emerge out of the question how did you come to this land? Right? And so then, what is your role and responsibility towards the original keepers of this land and the land that you currently live on? So how do you want to be with the natural world? So I think it's a bigger social question, but I do think, from a political perspective, you have to actually care about people's lives and not about simply making money.

Julia Pennella:

I hear you on that, and it's unfortunate that that outweighs people's lives. We can see it with the many wars going on right now before our eyes Again. Just like chaos really, in different states of people fighting for their rights to just exist, whether it's women who have to abort a baby because their life is at risk, or police brutality. The list can just go on and on, unfortunately. But one of my last questions here with everything happening in the political climate right now, it sometimes feels overwhelming or even discouraging. So how can we still be change makers in this moment, and is there room for hope and action even when it feels like things are moving in the wrong direction?

Nneka Allen:

It's always room for hope. I come from a people I shouldn't be here. I wasn't meant to survive. I wasn't meant to be in this world if slavery was going to have its way, and so that's where I come from. I come from a people that should not have survived, and so we have a saying we hope against hope. And so there's always room for hope, and I believe the hope always lives among the people, and it's really dangerous when the people forget they are the keepers of hope.

Nneka Allen:

That's also where our power is. Our power is always with the people, it's always in community, and so so much of the political landscape is designed to make us forget that we are powerful, to give up our power, to think we don't have any power right, it's a trick. We are powerful, we are all uniquely powerful, and together we can move mountains, we can make great change, and that, to me, is tremendously hopeful. So how do we remember who we are? How do we remember our power? What are the things we can be doing to bring that memory back? When I see statistics like Tesla's sales went down 71%, I'm like that's the people, right? Yeah, the numbers don't lie. People don't lie. And so how do we invest and inspire that memory so it remains front of mind and we don't forget so much of white supremacy. Culture wants us to forget what's real, what's true. Blissful ignorance is like a central tenet. So how do we stay awake to what's real? That is where hope is.

Julia Pennella:

What a beautiful way to end it. That was Nneka Allen, founder of the Empathy Agency. I have goosebumps and I'm going to be reflecting a lot on this conversation, and I hope you are too, Nneka. Any other closing thoughts?

Nneka Allen:

No, what a wonderful conversation, Julia. Thank you so much for inviting me and for the thoughtful questions. I really enjoyed my time with you. Thank you so much. Well, thank you so much.

Julia Pennella:

That was Nneka Allen, and thanks for tuning in to let's Talk Politics. We'll see you next week with my next special guest. Have a good one. And that wraps up my inspiring conversation with Nneka Allen, the founder of the Empathy Agency Inc. Don't forget to subscribe to Nneka's Substack and visit her website, theempathyagencyca to explore the incredible services she offers, from racial empathy coaching to fundraising support. And a quick reminder April 28th is Election Day. Make sure you get out and vote and make your voice heard. I'm your host, Julia Pennella, and this was let's Talk Politics. Thanks for tuning in and I'll catch you next time.